Posts by Juan Viejo2

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

I just got another email from my contact:

"Just got off the phone with a very deep insider. He told me that a form of 'theocratic tithing' was being discussed, but has been tabled for now. How would it work? Very simple and quite sneaky as well. One of the elders would be assigned the duty of sitting down with each family head and go over the family tax forms for the past year - the ones actually filed with the IRS or however it is done in other countries (remember some countries don't have direct income taxes like the US.) At first this would be entirely voluntary, but to refuse might be considered "resisting Jehovah or the holy spirit" or a sign of "spirtual weakness."

"In effect, the congregation would be 'tithed' but not at the traditional 10% expected by some churches (Mormons). The Watchtower leadership has taken note that churches that do tithe are often among the richest and their membership seems to be more dedicated (Mormons, some pentecostals, Scientology). They are trying to learn from their competitors who always seem to be unbelievably wealthy in spite of their often poor members. After all, what is 'everlasting life' worth. Would rank and file JWs risk their eternal lives by not giving what they promised - after all - Jehovah knows! You can't get past the all-seeing-eyes of the holy spirit. Observed from that point of view, and understanding how much crap JWs put up with already, it's almost a sure thing that the Watchtower can pull this off and totally get away with it."

He offered more - but it would be too far fetched for most of the readers and posters of JWN. So I will stop there and comment elsewhere.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Tech49 - it could be that the local congregation won't have to "send in their contributions to the WT." Since the WT will be co-owners of all local accounts (where local laws allow for dual ownership), they can just reach in and transfer the money themselves. Not all states or countries allow co-ownership of bank accounts, but the local KH could set up an automatic payment arrangement for a certain minimum each month and then send additional payments if there are more funds available.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

Quarterback - Have it your way. Check back in a year and see what happens. My contact has made it very clear that we haven't seen anything yet and changes over the next 24-48 months will make the WT look very different than what we know now.

JV

324

Is this new donation arrangement for real?

by nugget in

just read a post on jwsurvey about the new donation arrangement.

congregations are to pledge a monthly amount to be sent to the society to fund the building of assembly halls and kingdom halls.

congregations who already have a loan from the society will no longer have to pay back the loan but the amount pledged should not be less than the current monthly repayments to the society.

Juan Viejo2

More breaking news...

My very, very, very secret contact emailed me right after he saw Cedars' article on JWSurvey.org and the news post on JWReport.com about the new BOE letter. Here is what he wrote:

"Remember what I told you in our last contact? Let me repeat: ' Many of the changes will only apply to North America at first, but will likely be adapted for foreign branches in 2015 and 2016. I can assure you that there will be a lot of pissed off brothers who have dedicated their lives to serving the Watchtower. I say they'll get what they deserve for being so gullible.' and ' You know from your own experience that a lot of changes can be made right under the average JW nose and they will never take notice or give a damn. My contacts have implied that the real changes will start taking place after the next annual meeting. I would love to get tickets to that show on the 100th anniversary of 1914. This "centennial year" should be very interesting to watch and analyze.' "

"One of my contacts had mentioned that there would be major changes in how contributions would be collected. He wasn't sure exactly how it all would play out, but he told me that there would be (his exact words) 'a lot of pissed off brothers and elders. I wouldn't call it a "tithe" but a dog of any breed is still a dog. The first step will be declared monthly minimum amounts that each family head and single brother can contribute. At first they will be lenient, but if that minimum is not met at least 10 months out of 12, then the brother might be classified as 'spiritually weak' (unless there are mitigating circumstances). Sisters will not be held to account. Elders and MS could lose their appointments if they (1) don't commit enough, and -or (2) don't meet their commitments without some serious emergency."

"What is really going to upset local boards of elders is the fact that they will eventually lose all control of their own bank accounts. They will have to send copies of their bank statements to a special WT department set up for this - or add that department to the bank's report distribution list. Not only that, but they will have to share all account numbers and online passwords with WT HQ. That will allow the WT to go in around the elders and manipulate funds as they see fit. Someday an elder will go in to make a withdrawal and find out that only the bank's minimum is on deposit. Not sure when all of this will take place - and corp may back off it the local elders start making an issue of it, but it is definitely in the works."

"I would not want to be an elder right now. They are not only held to a higher standard in so many ways, now the financial hammer will be coming down on them. Not only that, but the Legal Department will likely let them swing in the wind for local pedophile issues, whether they report cases to the police or not. You might want to get the word out, especially to MSers and elders with large families and low incomes to get out now. The honor and power of being an elder won't be worth the pain and additional stress they will have to deal with."

My contact promised more. He said that he had not seen the recent BOE letter quoted by Cedars, but had heard that something along those lines would be coming out - but he figured that it would be held back until after the Memorial. In a way, it was, as the effective date does not begin until May.

I'm sure some of the active elders that visit JWN will have a lot to say about this. I look forward to their own personal feelings and experiences.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Congratulations, Outlaw, on having your high-end audio equipment available to hear whatever you are hearing. Perhaps we are listening to different versions, but I'm not going to argue with you over this - it's not worth my time or yours. Besides, you have far more fans on JWN that I do. Congratulations. You've earned them.

In spite of your accusations, AAWA would not have intentionally placed an off-color comment on something we proudly show off to our audience and the public.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

And by the way - Ruben Ortiz was there and along for the ride and he wrote an article for AAWA.co about the experience. There are photos of many of those who participated in the trip and some additional information not mentioned in the video. I won't post a direct link, but if you think this must have been fun - it was. And the video is also there if you want to check it out for yourself.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Guess I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other - or just dense. Probably both because I'm just a stupid old man. But it is a stretch to imagine that somehow AAWA is going to sneak subliminal messages into our videos - especially those that muddy our message. For what purpose, I wonder? We'd never considered that before, but maybe you've turned us on to something that we can use in the future.

Oh well, have fun with it and share with your friends. The point is not what may have been said or heard in passing, but what the point of the video really is. Bottom line is that it is fun, revealing, and (pardon the expression) "ballsy" for Bo Juel to just walk right in and ask for a new Bible and not try to hide who he is or the fact that he is on the board of advisors of AAWA.

He was just one of the folks from AAWA who were meeting in New England who had a great time. They met with some wonderful groups and individuals (some quite prominent and with good media connections) who are fighting cults with effective education and publicity programs.

And again, thank you for your support - such as it is.

JV

38

3 days ago Apostate walks into Watchtower headquarters gets a new Bible Leaves his business card

by Watchtower-Free in

bo juel jensen from norway was visiting new york 3 days ago .

he is an apostate activist and a child abuse survivor .. this is the video.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odluwssd_qy.

Juan Viejo2

Outlaw -

Dick Kelly is not the kind of guy that would ever say something like that on a public video. It takes a lot of red wine to even get Richard Kelly loose enough to use a term like that.

And Gregorio Smith (you all know him, right?) filmed and edited the video - and he would never allow something like that in this type of situation either. He would have cut that word out instantly if someone had actually used it.

I did hear what you are referring to, but what he is saying is "something, something" ?"classic case of"? "redirection." But there is a lot of background and environmental noise that confuses some of the background conversation. The word "erection" does not even fit within that context since they are talking about the Silver Sword Bible and Bo immediately states that he asked for a "sister-friendly version."

They just spent several days with Steven Hassan and others of that caliber - so I'm sure they used the term "redirection" a lot in their conversations. It is even mentioned in a new article written and posted about the incident on AAWA.co:

"... the Watchtower tells Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun ex-JWs is because they know that we know what’s hiding behind their Wizard-of-Oz-like curtain."

Not quite sure why whatever AAWA does or does not do seems to make you look for our "dark side." I think if you ever had the chance to meet most of us in person you'd come away with an entirely different impression than the one you seem to have locked in to your permanent memory bank.

JV

13

"Keep Seeking First the Contribution Box" - the REAL district convention program ;)

by processor in

.

the real district convention program can be downloaded only here: http://www.svhelden.info/pdf/co-pgm14-e2.pdf.

.

Juan Viejo2

Too bad they didn't add "This invitation may have been delivered by a well-dressed pedophile with a brief case. If your minor child opened the door to them, your home may be marked for a 'return visit.' "

JV

34

Pushing the JW.ORG

by Etude in

i took these pictures over a month ago.

i had not realized that they were really pushing their site.

this was at our farmers market, although they were not officially in the market area but off the side on the sidewalk.. .

Juan Viejo2

Len,

Same thing happened here at my home. It was Saturday morning around 9:30 AM when my little dog started raising hell. I crawled out of bed, grabbed my robe and went to the top of the stairs. Saw nothing at all, but my pup would not quiet down, snorting and rocking back and forth in her version of attack mode. Then I heard a very timid knock on my door. There are vertical windows on each side of the solid front door, but the blinds were closed. Tap, tap, tip, tip...

As I descended the stairs toward the front door I could sense someone was still on the porch. I got to the door and opened it. A late middle-aged man and a very nicely dressed and made up woman had just started to retreat down my path, but did turn around to come back and chat.

"Jehovah's Witnesses?"

"Yes, we are? We just wanted to invite you to a special meeting." The man reached down and dug the invitation out of the flower pot sitting next to the door on the porch and then handed a very small invitation to me. I'm standing there naked as a jaybird with just my light robe wrapped around me.

"The Memorial?" I asked as I looked at the invitation. "Yeah, I went a couple of years ago. Someday you should come back and we can talk about it. As you can see, I'm not really dressed to invite visitors inside this morning."

"That would be nice. Yes, we can see that." Moving steadily backward they prepared to make their escape, I could see they were in no mood for conversation either. "We'll come again sometime soon."

"When you do - if you do - I'm sure we will have a lot to talk about."

I'm pretty sure they'll never come back - and that's OK. I know that my house is marked as being the "lair of an apostate." The few times they do come by and I happen to see them - they walk by don't come to my door. They won't even stop when I am out front working in the yard.

Right now I average two visits a year. One before the Memorial (they just leave the invitation) and once before the District Assembly that is held at the Fair Grounds here (we are the state capitol). Again - all they do is drop an invitation on my porch.

One thing I noticed and am curious about. The time for the Memorial here will be 7:30 PM on the 14th. Sunset doesn't occur until 7:56 PM, but it will still be light until 8:30. Seems like they are pushing it a little, but maybe they won't whip out the Manischewitz and snap bread until after 8:00 just so Jesus doesn't get sad and Jehovah doesn't send a comet to wipe them all out for beating the clock.

JV